Delivered unsafe item damaged me

Post by john hamilton
Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from
a well known national department store.
After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted
out. There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I
did not want to pull it out using these.
So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep
cuts along the back of three fingers.
Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is
if its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a
file.
This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
everybody else would try to lift it out.
How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this
happening again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a
U.K. store.
My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity, since
having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and
then carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly
happening.
Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
contribution.

This is an interesting scenario. In the US, a group might or might not have
luck litigating this.
Sheeit, people have been awarded millions for coffee that was too hot, for a
bug in a yogurt.

Can you document any psychological trauma?
If you can document any resulting ED or some such, not only can *you* sue,
but your WIFE can sue as well, for loss of "conjugal privilege" or some
shit.... No foolin....

I saw a lawsuit for $10 mil for a slip/fall from a 75 y.o. lady who fell,
and $5 mil from her hubby for the above loss....
I said, Wow, dat old lady musta been some piece of......
Which makes you wonder how a judge/jury might ascertain and verify said
conjugal value of a particular spouse..... .hmmmm.....

Related to your issue is how shit is packaged in the US -- objects are
embalmed in thermo-molded plastic, so tough that you need *aviation snips*
or an effing band saw to get the product out of the packaging.
How fragile senior citizens cope with this is beyond me.

The situtation is so bad that this issue even reached our CongressWhores!
Altho clearly not high on their graft-taking agenda.... I can't cite the
exact name of the bill, as I just read this in passing in a NYC newspaper.

I have called up a mfr or two, and told them: Dudes, I can lift 150 lbs
over my head, and run 5 miles.... and *I* can't open your fucking
packages.... Just WHAT is the purpose to all this??? And at what
expense???

No rational response, of course, and how could there be, as the corporate
policy-makers are so well-shielded from consumers. Venting at a customer
rep just makes their already-miserable lives more miserable. Presumably if
50% of the customer base lodged complaints, the statistics would carry some
weight, but don't hold yer breath..

I believe that this thermoplastic is tough enough, sharp enough to slit
someone's wrist, if they slip in their efforts.

Ultimately, I believe this is just another deliberate slap in the consumer's
face by CorPirate Merka.
Fuck you, fuck me, fuck everyone, as long as everyone just pays and pays and
pays....

fwiw.

--
EA

hr(bob) hofmann@att.net

2010-02-21 16:06:14 UTC

This is an interesting scenario. In the US, a group might or might not have
luck litigating this.
Sheeit, people have been awarded millions for coffee that was too hot, for a
bug in a yogurt.
Can you document any psychological trauma?
If you can document any resulting ED or some such, not only can *you* sue,
but your WIFE can sue as well, for loss of "conjugal privilege" or some
shit.... No foolin....
I saw a lawsuit for $10 mil for a slip/fall from a 75 y.o. lady who fell,
and $5 mil from her hubby for the above loss....
I said, Wow, dat old lady musta been some piece of......
Which makes you wonder how a judge/jury might ascertain and verify said
conjugal value of a particular spouse..... .hmmmm.....
Related to your issue is how shit is packaged in the US -- objects are
embalmed in thermo-molded plastic, so tough that you need *aviation snips*
or an effing band saw to get the product out of the packaging.
How fragile senior citizens cope with this is beyond me.
The situtation is so bad that this issue even reached our CongressWhores!
Altho clearly not high on their graft-taking agenda.... I can't cite the
exact name of the bill, as I just read this in passing in a NYC newspaper.
I have called up a mfr or two, and told them: Dudes, I can lift 150 lbs
over my head, and run 5 miles.... and *I* can't open your fucking
packages.... Just WHAT is the purpose to all this??? And at what
expense???
No rational response, of course, and how could there be, as the corporate
policy-makers are so well-shielded from consumers. Venting at a customer
rep just makes their already-miserable lives more miserable. Presumably if
50% of the customer base lodged complaints, the statistics would carry some
weight, but don't hold yer breath..
I believe that this thermoplastic is tough enough, sharp enough to slit
someone's wrist, if they slip in their efforts.
Ultimately, I believe this is just another deliberate slap in the consumer's
face by CorPirate Merka.
Fuck you, fuck me, fuck everyone, as long as everyone just pays and pays and
pays....
fwiw.
--
EA- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Your reply might make more sense to a non-USA person if you used a
little bit more polite language and regular names instead of swearing
continually.

Existential Angst

2010-02-21 18:46:52 UTC

This is an interesting scenario. In the US, a group might or might not
have
luck litigating this.
Sheeit, people have been awarded millions for coffee that was too hot, for a
bug in a yogurt.
Can you document any psychological trauma?
If you can document any resulting ED or some such, not only can *you* sue,
but your WIFE can sue as well, for loss of "conjugal privilege" or some
shit.... No foolin....
I saw a lawsuit for $10 mil for a slip/fall from a 75 y.o. lady who fell,
and $5 mil from her hubby for the above loss....
I said, Wow, dat old lady musta been some piece of......
Which makes you wonder how a judge/jury might ascertain and verify said
conjugal value of a particular spouse..... .hmmmm.....
Related to your issue is how shit is packaged in the US -- objects are
embalmed in thermo-molded plastic, so tough that you need *aviation snips*
or an effing band saw to get the product out of the packaging.
How fragile senior citizens cope with this is beyond me.
The situtation is so bad that this issue even reached our CongressWhores!
Altho clearly not high on their graft-taking agenda.... I can't cite the
exact name of the bill, as I just read this in passing in a NYC newspaper.
I have called up a mfr or two, and told them: Dudes, I can lift 150 lbs
over my head, and run 5 miles.... and *I* can't open your fucking
packages.... Just WHAT is the purpose to all this??? And at what
expense???
No rational response, of course, and how could there be, as the corporate
policy-makers are so well-shielded from consumers. Venting at a customer
rep just makes their already-miserable lives more miserable. Presumably if
50% of the customer base lodged complaints, the statistics would carry some
weight, but don't hold yer breath..
I believe that this thermoplastic is tough enough, sharp enough to slit
someone's wrist, if they slip in their efforts.
Ultimately, I believe this is just another deliberate slap in the consumer's
face by CorPirate Merka.
Fuck you, fuck me, fuck everyone, as long as everyone just pays and pays and
pays....
fwiw.
--
EA- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Your reply might make more sense to a non-USA person if you used a
little bit more polite language and regular names instead of swearing
continually.
=========================================

Well, I *did* use "conjugal privilege" -- give some credit, dude!!!

Usually, it's a lot worse.... but I'm taking more meds, experimenting more
with dosages, AND reconciling myself to the inexorable process of Global
Social Darwinism.....

Which would be a lot easier to reconcile if Social Darwinism was an "us vs
them" scenario....
But it is not, because when *so many* people fall by the wayside of
unnatural social selection, it affects *everyone*.
It's like being a Navy Seal in a stadium stampede -- all that skill and
training don't help much.

--
EA

Ste

2010-02-21 17:18:11 UTC

This is an interesting scenario. In the US, a group might or might not have
luck litigating this.
Sheeit, people have been awarded millions for coffee that was too hot, for a
bug in a yogurt.

I like to remind people that McDonalds got stung for having coffee too
hot because many customers had been injured and had previously
complained, but they found that the heat was necessary to create an
alluring coffee aroma, and so therefore made an economic decision that
it was acceptable for people to get scalded.

Rod Speed

2010-02-21 17:20:17 UTC

Post by Existential Angst

Post by john hamilton
Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob
from a well known national department store.
After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be
lifted out. There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap
knobs, but I did not want to pull it out using these.
So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three
deep cuts along the back of three fingers.
Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how
metal is if its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared
edge with a file.
This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and
time again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably
the way everybody else would try to lift it out.
How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this
happening again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it
from a U.K. store.
My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity,
since having to pay money might make them actually make them take
notice and then carry out the extra work on these units to stop this
repeatedly happening.
Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
contribution.

I use the heavy duty serrated edged scissors designed to cut up chickens.

Post by Existential Angst
How fragile senior citizens cope with this is beyond me.

They get someone to open it for them if they dont have heavy
duty serrated edged scissors designed to cut up chickens.

Post by Existential Angst
The situtation is so bad that this issue even reached our
CongressWhores! Altho clearly not high on their graft-taking
agenda.... I can't cite the exact name of the bill, as I just read
this in passing in a NYC newspaper.
I have called up a mfr or two, and told them: Dudes, I can lift 150
lbs over my head, and run 5 miles.... and *I* can't open your fucking
packages....

You can with heavy duty serrated edged scissors designed to cut up chickens.

Post by Existential Angst
Just WHAT is the purpose to all this???

To stop people opening them in the store.

Post by Existential Angst
And at what expense???

Peanuts, just a bit of plastic.

Post by Existential Angst
No rational response, of course, and how could there be, as the
corporate policy-makers are so well-shielded from consumers. Venting
at a customer rep just makes their already-miserable lives more
miserable. Presumably if 50% of the customer base lodged complaints,
the statistics would carry some weight, but don't hold yer breath..

Not a chance with stuff made in china.

Post by Existential Angst
I believe that this thermoplastic is tough enough, sharp enough to slit someone's wrist, if they slip in their
efforts.

Thats why you use heavy duty serrated edged scissors designed to cut up chickens.

Post by Existential Angst
Ultimately, I believe this is just another deliberate slap in the
consumer's face by CorPirate Merka.
Fuck you, fuck me, fuck everyone, as long as everyone just pays and
pays and pays....

You'll burst something if you dont watch out.

Existential Angst

2010-02-21 18:38:56 UTC

Post by Existential Angst

Post by john hamilton
Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob
from a well known national department store.
After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be
lifted out. There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap
knobs, but I did not want to pull it out using these.
So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three
deep cuts along the back of three fingers.
Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how
metal is if its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared
edge with a file.
This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and
time again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably
the way everybody else would try to lift it out.
How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this
happening again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it
from a U.K. store.
My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity,
since having to pay money might make them actually make them take
notice and then carry out the extra work on these units to stop this
repeatedly happening.
Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
contribution.

I use the heavy duty serrated edged scissors designed to cut up chickens.

Post by Existential Angst
How fragile senior citizens cope with this is beyond me.

They get someone to open it for them if they dont have heavy
duty serrated edged scissors designed to cut up chickens.

You can with heavy duty serrated edged scissors designed to cut up chickens.

Post by Existential Angst
Just WHAT is the purpose to all this???

To stop people opening them in the store.

Post by Existential Angst
And at what expense???

Peanuts, just a bit of plastic.

Yeah, but there's a whole expensive technology and machine support for this.
I mean, it's gotta be ridiciulous/overkill when it gets to the
CongressWhores.

Not a chance with stuff made in china.

Post by Existential Angst
I believe that this thermoplastic is tough enough, sharp enough to slit
someone's wrist, if they slip in their efforts.

Thats why you use heavy duty serrated edged scissors designed to cut up chickens.

Dats why I use a band saw -- a 16" DoAll, iffin anyone is innerested.....
I could also use a radial arm saw.....

You'll burst something if you dont watch out.

Dats why I gotta run so much, to keep the g-d blood pressure down....
That, and Haagen Dazs Coffee ice cream....

I'd leave Merka, but..... then I'd be butt another victim of her foreign
policy....

But being oppressed by a South American junta might not be so bad -- I'd go
for the occasional military home-invasion and ass-beating over this chronic
and relentless mindfucking in Merka....
Mebbe I could be Hugo Chavez' boy toy.....

--
EA

Mrcheerful

2010-02-21 15:34:37 UTC

Post by john hamilton
Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob
from a well known national department store.
After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be
lifted out. There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap
knobs, but I did not want to pull it out using these.
So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three
deep cuts along the back of three fingers.
Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how
metal is if its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared
edge with a file.
This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and
time again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably
the way everybody else would try to lift it out.
How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this
happening again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it
from a U.K. store.
My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity,
since having to pay money might make them actually make them take
notice and then carry out the extra work on these units to stop this
repeatedly happening.
Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
contribution.

if you were pulling the item out then how did the back of your fingers get
damaged?

Colbyt

2010-02-21 15:41:45 UTC

I suspect you will have very little luck at all. Undoubtedly somewhere in
the literature it says something about using an experienced qualified
installer.

This is a trend of the last 20 years. Most everything was semi-finished in
the past. In the world today nothing seems to have one. Nothing seems to
come with a rolled or smoothed edge. You can cut yourself on just about
everything.

Not very likely to change back anytime soon since everyone wants to buy it
cheap the seller wants to make it cheap and ....... well you get drift.

Colbyt

harry

2010-02-21 15:48:25 UTC

Post by john hamilton
Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from
a well known national department store.
After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted
out. There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I
did not want to pull it out using these.
So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep
cuts along the back of three fingers.
Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is
if its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a
file.
This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
everybody else would try to lift it out.
How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this
happening again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a
U.K. store.
My collegue suggests I should request 100 to be sent to a charity, since
having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and
then carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly
happening.
Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
contribution.

I suspect you will have very little luck at all. �Undoubtedly somewhere in
the literature it says something about using an experienced qualified
installer.
This is a trend of the last 20 years. �Most everything was semi-finished in
the past. �In the world today nothing seems to have one. �Nothing seems to
come with a rolled or smoothed edge. �You can cut yourself on just about
everything.
Not very likely to change back anytime soon since everyone wants to buy it
cheap the seller wants to make it cheap and ....... well you get drift.
Colbyt- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Lots of stuff these days is made in third world countries with very
low standards. You can also get poisoned with lead, arsenic,
asbestos etc. etc.

DerbyDad03

2010-02-21 16:06:10 UTC

Post by john hamilton
Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from a
well known national department store.
After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted out.
There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I did not
want to pull it out using these.
So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep cuts
along the back of three fingers.
Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is if
its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a file.
This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
everybody else would try to lift it out.
How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this happening
again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a U.K. store.
My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity, since
having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and then
carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly happening.
Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
contribution.

re: "After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be
lifted out.... Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
everybody else would try to lift it out. "

Not everybody...

Ever heard of a box cutter?

Slit the corner seams of the box vertically so that it opens like
flower.

If you need to repackage the item, use strapping tape to put the box
back together.

Stormin Mormon

2010-02-21 22:16:50 UTC

Or, slit two seams and slide the item out.
Probably better to cut all four, and then you are
closer to having the cardboard in smaller pieces
to put in the rubbish.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"DerbyDad03" <***@eznet.net> wrote in
message news:24087aa3-1a6a-4f87-a9f8-***@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...

Ever heard of a box cutter?

Slit the corner seams of the box vertically so
that it opens like
flower.

If you need to repackage the item, use strapping
tape to put the box
back together.

Rod Speed

2010-02-22 02:35:43 UTC

Post by Stormin Mormon
Or, slit two seams and slide the item out.
Probably better to cut all four, and then you are
closer to having the cardboard in smaller pieces
to put in the rubbish.

Hmm,
Not rubbish. Into the blue recycle bin!

Mine isnt blue. Should I slash my wrists or just spree ?

Stormin Mormon

2010-02-22 13:00:07 UTC

Must immediatey write, email, and fax every
elected official in the nation and protest your
discrimination. Start a foundation called
Worldwide Home for Individuals Needing Equality in
Recycling. Then, we can all join, and become a
united nation of W.H.I.N.E.R.s.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Hmm,
Not rubbish. Into the blue recycle bin!

Mine isnt blue. Should I slash my wrists or just
spree ?

Tony Hwang

2010-02-21 16:34:49 UTC

Post by john hamilton
Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from a
well known national department store.
After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted out.
There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I did not
want to pull it out using these.
So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep cuts
along the back of three fingers.
Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is if
its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a file.
This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
everybody else would try to lift it out.
How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this happening
again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a U.K. store.
My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity, since
having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and then
carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly happening.
Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
contribution.

Hmmm,
Laziness, stupidity, common sense, inexperience.

Peter Crosland

2010-02-21 16:54:55 UTC

Ever heard of taking responsibility for your own actions? When opening
something like this the sensible way is to cut the corner seam so the box
can be opened rather like a flower. This makes it easy to re-seal if you
need to return the item. That way you can safely examine to goods before you
hurt yourself.Why do you think you can extort money from them to donate to a
charity?

Peter Crosland

Toom Tabard

2010-02-21 17:22:01 UTC

Post by Peter Crosland

Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer, there should be no
hidden hazard in any reasonable action to remove it from the
packaging

Toom

michael adams

2010-02-23 12:22:36 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,

Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
or similar professional.

An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.

The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.

Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
be an entirely different thing.

michael adams

...

Vic Smith

2010-02-23 13:19:00 UTC

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:22:36 -0000, "michael adams"

Post by Toom Tabard
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,

Perhaps, perhaps not. But if cutting edges were commonly on a
product, he would no doubt recommend against using it.

Post by michael adams
The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
be an entirely different thing.

Those who have never worked in manufacturing seem to think that
cutting edges and burrs are normal if hidden from the consumer.
They are not, and are routinely removed as part of the manufacturing
process,
Not just for the consumer or tradesman, but for the workers in the
plant who perform other processes on the piece after stamping/cutting.
Beyond injury, deburring and removing cutting edges is cheaper than
replacing sliced gloves.
Most likely the edges that injured the OP was an oversight and a
one-off. If not, it's a crappy product and most likely deficient in
other ways too.

--Vic

Rod Speed

2010-02-23 18:33:07 UTC

Post by Vic Smith
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:22:36 -0000, "michael adams"

Post by Toom Tabard
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,

Perhaps, perhaps not. But if cutting edges were commonly on a
product, he would no doubt recommend against using it.

Fantasy. They have been seen in the cheapest PC cases for decades.

Post by Vic Smith
If not, it's a crappy product and most likely deficient in other ways too.

Yes, one with filed edges would certainly be a higher quality product,
but that does not mean that one without them wont work fine.

DerbyDad03

2010-02-23 14:09:31 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,

Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
or similar professional.
An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
be an entirely different thing.
michael adams
...

re: Either he's a consumer in which case he gives the job to someone
who can handle it, or he's a fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut
his hand."

What?

You don't truly believe that a "consumer" can't be a "fitter" do you?

I guess I shouldn't have put in my own windows or doors or bath
fixtures or water heater or stove or deck or any of the other things
I've "fitted" into my house.

After all, I'm just a consumer and "can't handle it".

I'm not defending the OP...I'm not even talking about the OP. I'm only
responding to your claim that a consumer can't also be the fitter.

michael adams

2010-02-23 16:58:00 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,

Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
or similar professional.
An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
be an entirely different thing.
michael adams
...
re: Either he's a consumer in which case he gives the job to someone
who can handle it, or he's a fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut
his hand."
What?

...

In the UK at least a "fitter" is a name given to professional installers
of all sorts of things. Kitchen fitter, motor fitter, electrical fitter
etc etc.

Not just simply to someone who "fits" things.

A professional fitter might reasonably be expected to have the experience to
forstall such problems.

The packaging being complained of is intended for opening by professional
tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs.

"Unskilled" if only in the sense that when they cut their little "handies" as
a result of not using a box-cutter, the correct tool for the job, they then
start to blub like little children. And start demanding that the "naughty man"
should be made to pay money to Charity "cos they hurted demselves"

Yeah right! Like that's gonna happen !

HTH

michael adams

posting on uk.people.consumers

....

Post by michael adams
You don't truly believe that a "consumer" can't be a "fitter" do you?
I guess I shouldn't have put in my own windows or doors or bath
fixtures or water heater or stove or deck or any of the other things
I've "fitted" into my house.
After all, I'm just a consumer and "can't handle it".
I'm not defending the OP...I'm not even talking about the OP. I'm only
responding to your claim that a consumer can't also be the fitter.

DerbyDad03

2010-02-24 05:02:53 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,

Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
or similar professional.
An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
be an entirely different thing.
michael adams
...
re: Either he's a consumer in which case he gives the job to someone
who can handle it, or he's a fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut
his hand."
What?

...
In the UK at least a "fitter" is a name given to professional installers
of all sorts of things. Kitchen fitter, motor fitter, electrical fitter
etc etc.
Not just simply to someone who "fits" things.
A professional fitter might reasonably be expected to have the experience to
forstall such problems.
The packaging being complained of is intended for opening by professional
tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs.
"Unskilled" if only in the sense that when they cut their little "handies" as
a result of not using a box-cutter, the correct tool for the job, they then
start to blub like little children. And start demanding that the "naughty man"
should be made to pay money to Charity "cos they hurted demselves"
Yeah right! Like that's gonna happen !
HTH
michael adams
posting on uk.people.consumers
....

re: "In the UK at least a "fitter" is a name given to professional
installers of all sorts of things."

I know what you meant by a "fitter".

However, I still don't agree with your point that a consumer should
never handle a gas hob.

Using US terminology, I'm not a "contractor" but I bought all of my
windows and doors from a "contractor's supply house".

They weren't packaged any differently than the windows and doors you'd
buy from a "consumer's supply house"

I'm not a plumber, but I bought my fixtures at a plumbing supply
house. They weren't packaged any differently than the fixtures at the
big box stores, where "consumer's" shop.

re: "The packaging being complained of is intended for opening by
professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs."

Again, I beg to differ. Packaging isn't "intended" to be opened by
people of a certain occupation. It's intended to protect an item
during shipping/storage.

If the item in question should never have been (to use your word)
"handled" by the consumer, then it should have been a "controlled
substance" and he shouldn't have been able to buy it without a license
or proof of training. Absent those restrictions, anyone, consumer or
professional, is allowed to "handle" the product and it's their
responsibility to take the proper precautions when doing so.

Rod Speed

2010-02-24 18:40:39 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,

Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
or similar professional.
An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
be an entirely different thing.
michael adams
...
re: Either he's a consumer in which case he gives the job to someone
who can handle it, or he's a fitter in which case he wouldn't have
cut his hand."
What?

...
In the UK at least a "fitter" is a name given to professional
installers
of all sorts of things. Kitchen fitter, motor fitter, electrical fitter
etc etc.
Not just simply to someone who "fits" things.
A professional fitter might reasonably be expected to have the
experience to forstall such problems.
The packaging being complained of is intended for opening by
professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs.
"Unskilled" if only in the sense that when they cut their little
"handies" as a result of not using a box-cutter, the correct tool
for the job, they then start to blub like little children. And start
demanding that the "naughty man" should be made to pay money to
Charity "cos they hurted demselves"
Yeah right! Like that's gonna happen !
HTH
michael adams
posting on uk.people.consumers
....

Post by michael adams
You don't truly believe that a "consumer" can't be a "fitter" do
you? I guess I shouldn't have put in my own windows or doors or bath
fixtures or water heater or stove or deck or any of the other things
I've "fitted" into my house.
After all, I'm just a consumer and "can't handle it".
I'm not defending the OP...I'm not even talking about the OP. I'm
only responding to your claim that a consumer can't also be the
fitter.

Plenty of other stuff is tho, most obviously with yorkshire fittings for copper plumbing etc.

Post by DerbyDad03
I'm not a plumber, but I bought my fixtures at a plumbing
supply house. They weren't packaged any differently than
the fixtures at the big box stores, where "consumer's" shop.

Bet the yorkshire fittings were. Mine are loose in bins etc.

Same with taps etc too.

Post by DerbyDad03
re: "The packaging being complained of is intended for
opening by professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs."
Again, I beg to differ. Packaging isn't "intended" to be opened by
people of a certain occupation. It's intended to protect an item
during shipping/storage.
If the item in question should never have been (to use your word)
"handled" by the consumer, then it should have been a "controlled
substance" and he shouldn't have been able to buy it without a license
or proof of training.

Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.

They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.

Same with GPOs etc too, they arent legally usable by the consumer either.

Post by DerbyDad03
Absent those restrictions, anyone, consumer or
professional, is allowed to "handle" the product and it's their
responsibility to take the proper precautions when doing so.

Ste

2010-02-24 18:50:18 UTC

Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.
They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.

Are you joking sarcastically, or are you just talking completely out
of your arse?

joe parkin

2010-02-24 19:01:39 UTC

Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.
They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.

Are you joking sarcastically, or are you just talking completely out
of your arse?

It is not illegal to sell unsuitable fittings and appliances but to
install one would be illegal, so check suitability before purchase. The
regulations detail standards for suitability and the Water Fittings and
Materials Directory, published by the WRAS, gives up-to-date details of
a wide range of items which have been tested and proved to comply, when
installed correctly, and can be accessed from their website.

--

Skippy

2010-02-24 19:21:39 UTC

Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.
They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.

Are you joking sarcastically, or are you just talking completely out
of your arse?

The fuckwit lives in australia where they are considered too stupid to
do their own plumbing or electrics

Ste

2010-02-25 01:11:28 UTC

Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.
They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.

Are you joking sarcastically, or are you just talking completely out
of your arse?

The fuckwit lives in australia where they are considered too stupid to
do their own plumbing or electrics

Ah, my apologies to him then. Here in the UK, there are no
restrictions on gas fitting in one's own home, except that the work
must be performed "competently".

Rod Speed

2010-02-25 02:54:32 UTC

Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.
They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.

Are you joking sarcastically, or are you just talking completely out of your arse?

The fuckwit lives in australia where they are considered
too stupid to do their own plumbing or electrics

Ah, my apologies to him then. Here in the UK, there are
no restrictions on gas fitting in one's own home, except
that the work must be performed "competently".

We arent even allowed to change the tap washer in some
states, let alone install the plumbing or do the electrical wiring.

Corse everyone ignores the ban on changing the tap washer.

krw

2010-02-25 03:55:37 UTC

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:54:32 +1100, "Rod Speed"

Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.
They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.

Are you joking sarcastically, or are you just talking completely out of your arse?

The fuckwit lives in australia where they are considered
too stupid to do their own plumbing or electrics

Ah, my apologies to him then. Here in the UK, there are
no restrictions on gas fitting in one's own home, except
that the work must be performed "competently".

We arent even allowed to change the tap washer in some
states, let alone install the plumbing or do the electrical wiring.

Bullshit.

Post by Rod Speed
Corse everyone ignores the ban on changing the tap washer.

Course everyone should ignore Ronnie Reaugh.

Rod Speed

2010-02-25 06:19:38 UTC

Post by krw
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:54:32 +1100, "Rod Speed"

Post by DerbyDad03
re: "The packaging being complained of is intended for
opening by professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs."
Again, I beg to differ. Packaging isn't "intended" to be opened
by people of a certain occupation. It's intended to protect an
item during shipping/storage.
If the item in question should never have been (to use your
word) "handled" by the consumer, then it should have been a
"controlled substance" and he shouldn't have been able to buy
it without a license or proof of training.

Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.
They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.

Are you joking sarcastically, or are you just talking completely out of your arse?

The fuckwit lives in australia where they are considered
too stupid to do their own plumbing or electrics

Ah, my apologies to him then. Here in the UK, there are
no restrictions on gas fitting in one's own home, except
that the work must be performed "competently".

We arent even allowed to change the tap washer in some
states, let alone install the plumbing or do the electrical wiring.

Bullshit.

Fact.

Post by krw

Post by Rod Speed
Corse everyone ignores the ban on changing the tap washer.

krw

2010-02-25 15:24:08 UTC

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:19:38 +1100, "Rod Speed"

Post by krw
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:54:32 +1100, "Rod Speed"

Post by DerbyDad03
re: "The packaging being complained of is intended for
opening by professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs."
Again, I beg to differ. Packaging isn't "intended" to be opened
by people of a certain occupation. It's intended to protect an
item during shipping/storage.
If the item in question should never have been (to use your
word) "handled" by the consumer, then it should have been a
"controlled substance" and he shouldn't have been able to buy
it without a license or proof of training.

Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.
They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.

Are you joking sarcastically, or are you just talking completely
out of your arse?

The fuckwit lives in australia where they are considered
too stupid to do their own plumbing or electrics

Ah, my apologies to him then. Here in the UK, there are
no restrictions on gas fitting in one's own home, except
that the work must be performed "competently".

We arent even allowed to change the tap washer in some
states, let alone install the plumbing or do the electrical wiring.

Bullshit.

Fact.

Cite.

Post by krw

Post by Rod Speed
Corse everyone ignores the ban on changing the tap washer.

Ronny Reaugh is as full of shit as he normally is.

Rod Speed

2010-02-24 22:20:36 UTC

Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.
They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.

Are you joking sarcastically,

Nope.

Post by Ste
or are you just talking completely out of your arse?

Nope, talking about the situation in some jurisdictions.

DerbyDad03

2010-02-25 03:32:06 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,

Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
or similar professional.
An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
be an entirely different thing.
michael adams
...
re: Either he's a consumer in which case he gives the job to someone
who can handle it, or he's a fitter in which case he wouldn't have
cut his hand."
What?

...
In the UK at least a "fitter" is a name given to professional installers
of all sorts of things. Kitchen fitter, motor fitter, electrical fitter
etc etc.
Not just simply to someone who "fits" things.
A professional fitter might reasonably be expected to have the
experience to forstall such problems.
The packaging being complained of is intended for opening by
professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs.
"Unskilled" if only in the sense that when they cut their little
"handies" as a result of not using a box-cutter, the correct tool
for the job, they then start to blub like little children. And start
demanding that the "naughty man" should be made to pay money to
Charity "cos they hurted demselves"
Yeah right! Like that's gonna happen !
HTH
michael adams
posting on uk.people.consumers
....

Post by michael adams
You don't truly believe that a "consumer" can't be a "fitter" do
you? I guess I shouldn't have put in my own windows or doors or bath
fixtures or water heater or stove or deck or any of the other things
I've "fitted" into my house.
After all, I'm just a consumer and "can't handle it".
I'm not defending the OP...I'm not even talking about the OP. I'm
only responding to your claim that a consumer can't also be the
fitter.

Plenty of other stuff is tho, most obviously with yorkshire fittings for copper plumbing etc.

Is that just a casual observation or were you trying to make a point?

I'm not a plumber, but I bought my fixtures at a plumbing
supply house. They weren't packaged any differently than
the fixtures at the big box stores, where "consumer's" shop.

Bet the yorkshire fittings were. Mine are loose in bins etc.
Same with taps etc too.

Again...Your point?

re: "The packaging being complained of is intended for
opening by professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs."
Again, I beg to differ. Packaging isn't "intended" to be opened by
people of a certain occupation. It's intended to protect an item
during shipping/storage.
If the item in question should never have been (to use your word)
"handled" by the consumer, then it should have been a "controlled
substance" and he shouldn't have been able to buy it without a license
or proof of training.

Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.

The word "too" implies that what I said earlier was wrong. It wasn't.
The products I mentioned earlier were not packed any differently at
the contractor/plumbing supply houses than at the borgs.

Post by Rod Speed
They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.

I do believe the word I (and Toom) used was "handled". Is there a
legal restriction against "handling" the products in question?

Post by Rod Speed
Same with GPOs etc too, they arent legally usable by the consumer either.

*handled* my friend, *handled*.

Absent those restrictions, anyone, consumer or
professional, is allowed to "handle" the product and it's their
responsibility to take the proper precautions when doing so.

Rod Speed

2010-02-25 06:18:56 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,

Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
or similar professional.
An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
be an entirely different thing.
re: Either he's a consumer in which case he gives the job to
someone who can handle it, or he's a fitter in which case he
wouldn't have cut his hand."
What?

In the UK at least a "fitter" is a name given to professional installers
of all sorts of things. Kitchen fitter, motor fitter, electrical fitter etc etc.
Not just simply to someone who "fits" things.
A professional fitter might reasonably be expected to have the
experience to forstall such problems.
The packaging being complained of is intended for opening by
professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs.
"Unskilled" if only in the sense that when they cut their little
"handies" as a result of not using a box-cutter, the correct tool
for the job, they then start to blub like little children. And
start demanding that the "naughty man" should be made to pay money
to Charity "cos they hurted demselves"
Yeah right! Like that's gonna happen !

Post by michael adams
You don't truly believe that a "consumer" can't be a "fitter" do
you? I guess I shouldn't have put in my own windows or doors or
bath fixtures or water heater or stove or deck or any of the
other things I've "fitted" into my house.
After all, I'm just a consumer and "can't handle it".
I'm not defending the OP...I'm not even talking about the OP. I'm
only responding to your claim that a consumer can't also be the fitter.

Plenty of other stuff is tho, most obviously with yorkshire fittings for copper plumbing etc.

Is that just a casual observation

Nope.

Post by DerbyDad03
or were you trying to make a point?

I succeeded in making a point, even if you are too stupid to have noticed.

The point is that the packaging with stuff from contractors
supply houses can be very different to the packaging for retail.

I'm not a plumber, but I bought my fixtures at a plumbing
supply house. They weren't packaged any differently than
the fixtures at the big box stores, where "consumer's" shop.

Bet the yorkshire fittings were. Mine are loose in bins etc.
Same with taps etc too.

Again...Your point?

See above.

Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.

The word "too" implies that what I said earlier was wrong. It wasn't.

It was.

Post by DerbyDad03
The products I mentioned earlier were not packed any differently
at the contractor/plumbing supply houses than at the borgs.

Pity about other stuff that is.

Post by Rod Speed
They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.

I do believe the word I (and Toom) used was "handled".

Irrelevant to your stupid claim about packaging.

Post by DerbyDad03
Is there a legal restriction against "handling" the products in question?

Irrelevant to whether its legal for the consumer to use.

Post by Rod Speed
Same with GPOs etc too, they arent legally usable by the consumer either.

*handled* my friend, *handled*.

Use, no friend of mine, use.

Absent those restrictions, anyone, consumer or
professional, is allowed to "handle" the product and it's their
responsibility to take the proper precautions when doing so.

DerbyDad03

2010-02-25 14:22:43 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,

Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
or similar professional.
An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
be an entirely different thing.
re: Either he's a consumer in which case he gives the job to
someone who can handle it, or he's a fitter in which case he
wouldn't have cut his hand."
What?

Post by michael adams
You don't truly believe that a "consumer" can't be a "fitter" do
you? I guess I shouldn't have put in my own windows or doors or
bath fixtures or water heater or stove or deck or any of the
other things I've "fitted" into my house.
After all, I'm just a consumer and "can't handle it".
I'm not defending the OP...I'm not even talking about the OP. I'm
only responding to your claim that a consumer can't also be the fitter.

Plenty of other stuff is tho, most obviously with yorkshire fittings for copper plumbing etc.

Is that just a casual observation

Nope.

Post by DerbyDad03
or were you trying to make a point?

I succeeded in making a point, even if you are too stupid to have noticed.

Name calling. That's always a good way to draw a listener in and to
have him think that something intelligent might follow.

Post by Rod Speed
The point is that the packaging with stuff from contractors
supply houses can be very different to the packaging for retail.

No one said that packaging couldn't be different for different items.
Please show me where I said that every item from both sources is
packaged the same. In response to the claim that certain packaging
types were meant to be open by professionals only, I noted that a few
products that can be purchased by a "consumer" (Toom's word) from
"professional sources" - and typically installed by professionals -
were packaged the same as at the borg. Chucking out a random thoughts
on other items is not relevant to the discussion at hand.

I'm not a plumber, but I bought my fixtures at a plumbing
supply house. They weren't packaged any differently than
the fixtures at the big box stores, where "consumer's" shop.

Bet the yorkshire fittings were. Mine are loose in bins etc.
Same with taps etc too.

Again...Your point?

See above.

Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.

The word "too" implies that what I said earlier was wrong. It wasn't.

It was.

Now *that's* a substantial response.

Post by DerbyDad03
The products I mentioned earlier were not packed any differently
at the contractor/plumbing supply houses than at the borgs.

Pity about other stuff that is.

Again, why is the "other stuff" relevant to the discussion as to
whether certain packaging is intended to be opened by professionals
only? As an example, you brought up an item that is "loose in bins".
How is that even remotely relevant to a discussion about whether
packaging is intended for "professional opening" vs. "consumer
opening"?

Post by Rod Speed
They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.

I do believe the word I (and Toom) used was "handled".

Irrelevant to your stupid claim about packaging.

Are you sure you understand what my claim was? It appears not.

Post by DerbyDad03
Is there a legal restriction against "handling" the products in question?

Irrelevant to whether its legal for the consumer to use.

But relevant to the discussion of whether packaging is intended for
"professional opening only" which is the *only* claim I was responding
to.

Post by Rod Speed
Same with GPOs etc too, they arent legally usable by the consumer either.

*handled* my friend, *handled*.

Use, no friend of mine, use.

Oh, be nice.

Absent those restrictions, anyone, consumer or
professional, is allowed to "handle" the product and it's their
responsibility to take the proper precautions when doing so.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Rod Speed

2010-02-25 17:40:18 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,

Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
or similar professional.
An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
be an entirely different thing.
re: Either he's a consumer in which case he gives the job to
someone who can handle it, or he's a fitter in which case he
wouldn't have cut his hand."
What?

In the UK at least a "fitter" is a name given to professional installers
of all sorts of things. Kitchen fitter, motor fitter, electrical
fitter etc etc. Not just simply to someone who "fits" things.
A professional fitter might reasonably be expected to have the
experience to forstall such problems.
The packaging being complained of is intended for opening by
professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs.
"Unskilled" if only in the sense that when they cut their little
"handies" as a result of not using a box-cutter, the correct
tool for the job, they then start to blub like little children.
And start demanding that the "naughty man" should be
made to pay money to Charity "cos they hurted demselves"
Yeah right! Like that's gonna happen !

Post by michael adams
You don't truly believe that a "consumer" can't be a "fitter" do
you? I guess I shouldn't have put in my own windows or doors or
bath fixtures or water heater or stove or deck or any of the
other things I've "fitted" into my house.
After all, I'm just a consumer and "can't handle it".
I'm not defending the OP...I'm not even talking about the OP. I'm
only responding to your claim that a consumer can't also be the fitter.

Plenty of other stuff is tho, most obviously with yorkshire fittings for copper plumbing etc.

Is that just a casual observation

Nope.

Post by DerbyDad03
or were you trying to make a point?

I succeeded in making a point, even if you are too stupid to have noticed.

Name calling.

Nope, accurate characterisation.

Post by DerbyDad03
That's always a good way to draw a listener in and to
have him think that something intelligent might follow.

There is never anything intelligent in your shit.

Post by Rod Speed
The point is that the packaging with stuff from contractors
supply houses can be very different to the packaging for retail.

No one said that packaging couldn't be different for different items.

You did stupidly claim that the packaging isnt different with
goods from contractors supply houses. That is just plain wrong.

Post by DerbyDad03
Please show me where I said that every item from both sources
is packaged the same. In response to the claim that certain
packaging types were meant to be open by professionals only,

Please show me where I ever said you did.

Post by DerbyDad03
I noted that a few products that can be purchased by a "consumer"
(Toom's word) from "professional sources" - and typically installed
by professionals - were packaged the same as at the borg.

And you fucked that up completely too with door and windows.

Post by DerbyDad03
Chucking out a random thoughts

Everyone can see for themselves that they werent anything like random, fool.

Post by DerbyDad03
on other items is not relevant to the discussion at hand.

Everyone can see for themselves that that is a lie.

I'm not a plumber, but I bought my fixtures at a plumbing
supply house. They weren't packaged any differently than
the fixtures at the big box stores, where "consumer's" shop.

Bet the yorkshire fittings were. Mine are loose in bins etc.
Same with taps etc too.

Again...Your point?

See above.

Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.

The word "too" implies that what I said earlier was wrong. It wasn't.

It was.

Now *that's* a substantial response.

It was elaborated elsewhere, you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.

Post by DerbyDad03
The products I mentioned earlier were not packed any differently
at the contractor/plumbing supply houses than at the borgs.

Pity about other stuff that is.

Again, why is the "other stuff" relevant to the discussion as to whether
certain packaging is intended to be opened by professionals only?

Because it blows your stupid claims completely out of the water, fool.

Post by DerbyDad03
As an example, you brought up an item that is "loose in bins".
How is that even remotely relevant to a discussion about whether
packaging is intended for "professional opening" vs. "consumer opening"?

Its a clear example of where there is no packaging
whatever with stuff intended for professional fitting, fool.

Post by Rod Speed
They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.

I do believe the word I (and Toom) used was "handled".

Irrelevant to your stupid claim about packaging.

Are you sure you understand what my claim was?

Yep.

Post by DerbyDad03
It appears not.

Its obvious you never can bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

Post by DerbyDad03
Is there a legal restriction against "handling" the products in question?

Irrelevant to whether its legal for the consumer to use.

But relevant to the discussion of whether packaging is intended for "professional opening only"

Plenty of it is.

Post by DerbyDad03
which is the *only* claim I was responding to.

By making a complete fool of yourself, as always.

Post by Rod Speed
Same with GPOs etc too, they arent legally usable by the consumer either.

*handled* my friend, *handled*.

Use, no friend of mine, use.

Oh, be nice.

Corse you always do that yourself, eh ?

Absent those restrictions, anyone, consumer or
professional, is allowed to "handle" the product and it's their
responsibility to take the proper precautions when doing so.-

DerbyDad03

2010-02-26 00:18:27 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,

Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
or similar professional.
An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
be an entirely different thing.
re: Either he's a consumer in which case he gives the job to
someone who can handle it, or he's a fitter in which case he
wouldn't have cut his hand."
What?

In the UK at least a "fitter" is a name given to professional installers
of all sorts of things. Kitchen fitter, motor fitter, electrical
fitter etc etc. Not just simply to someone who "fits" things.
A professional fitter might reasonably be expected to have the
experience to forstall such problems.
The packaging being complained of is intended for opening by
professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs.
"Unskilled" if only in the sense that when they cut their little
"handies" as a result of not using a box-cutter, the correct
tool for the job, they then start to blub like little children.
And start demanding that the "naughty man" should be
made to pay money to Charity "cos they hurted demselves"
Yeah right! Like that's gonna happen !

Post by michael adams
You don't truly believe that a "consumer" can't be a "fitter" do
you? I guess I shouldn't have put in my own windows or doors or
bath fixtures or water heater or stove or deck or any of the
other things I've "fitted" into my house.
After all, I'm just a consumer and "can't handle it".
I'm not defending the OP...I'm not even talking about the OP. I'm
only responding to your claim that a consumer can't also be the fitter.

Plenty of other stuff is tho, most obviously with yorkshire fittings for copper plumbing etc.

Is that just a casual observation

Nope.

Post by DerbyDad03
or were you trying to make a point?

I succeeded in making a point, even if you are too stupid to have noticed.

Name calling.

Nope, accurate characterisation.

Post by DerbyDad03
That's always a good way to draw a listener in and to
have him think that something intelligent might follow.

There is never anything intelligent in your shit.

Post by Rod Speed
The point is that the packaging with stuff from contractors
supply houses can be very different to the packaging for retail.

No one said that packaging couldn't be different for different items.

You did stupidly claim that the packaging isnt different with
goods from contractors supply houses. That is just plain wrong.

Since the rest of the drivel you've spouted in this response isn't
even worth addressing, I'll simply point out the error in the above
statement since it appears to be the crux of your misunderstanding.
It's OK that you've dug yourself into a deep hole...let me help you
get out.

I specifically pointed out that the packaging for my *windows and
doors* was no different than the packaging for the *windows and doors*
at the borgs. Feel free to claim that that "is just plain wrong" all
you want. It won't change the fact that it is 100% true.

I also specifically pointed out that the packaging for my *bathroom
fixtures* was no different than the packaging for the same *bathroom
fixtures* at the borgs. Feel free to claim that that "is just plain
wrong" all you want. It won't change the fact that it is 100% true.

I know what I bought and I know how they were packaged at both
sources. I don't recall you being around at the time of the purchases,
so tell me how you know that they weren't packaged the same.
Wait...no, don't bother...I don't plan to help you understand the
situation any further once I finish this post, so you'd be wasting
your time by responding - unless it will make you feel better. If it
will, then by all means, call me whatever names you'd like, insult my
family, etc. If it's therapeutic to you, go ahead. After all, I'm just
here to help.

It's been nice chatting with you.

Please show me where I ever said you did.

And you fucked that up completely too with door and windows.

Post by DerbyDad03
Chucking out a random thoughts

Everyone can see for themselves that they werent anything like random, fool.

Post by DerbyDad03
on other items is not relevant to the discussion at hand.

Everyone can see for themselves that that is a lie.

I'm not a plumber, but I bought my fixtures at a plumbing
supply house. They weren't packaged any differently than
the fixtures at the big box stores, where "consumer's" shop.

Bet the yorkshire fittings were. Mine are loose in bins etc.
Same with taps etc too.

Again...Your point?

See above.

Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.

The word "too" implies that what I said earlier was wrong. It wasn't.

It was.

Now *that's* a substantial response.

It was elaborated elsewhere, you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.

Post by DerbyDad03
The products I mentioned earlier were not packed any differently
at the contractor/plumbing supply houses than at the borgs.

Pity about other stuff that is.

Again, why is the "other stuff" relevant to the discussion as to whether
certain packaging is intended to be opened by professionals only?

Because it blows your stupid claims completely out of the water, fool.

Its a clear example of where there is no packaging
whatever with stuff intended for professional fitting, fool.

Post by Rod Speed
They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.

I do believe the word I (and Toom) used was "handled".

Irrelevant to your stupid claim about packaging.

Are you sure you understand what my claim was?

Yep.

Post by DerbyDad03
It appears not.

Its obvious you never can bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

Post by DerbyDad03
Is there a legal restriction against "handling" the products in question?

Irrelevant to whether its legal for the consumer to use.

But relevant to the discussion of whether packaging is intended for "professional opening only"

Plenty of it is.

Post by DerbyDad03
which is the *only* claim I was responding to.

By making a complete fool of yourself, as always.

Post by Rod Speed
Same with GPOs etc too, they arent legally usable by the consumer either.

*handled* my friend, *handled*.

Use, no friend of mine, use.

Oh, be nice.

Corse you always do that yourself, eh ?

Absent those restrictions, anyone, consumer or
professional, is allowed to "handle" the product and it's their
responsibility to take the proper precautions when doing so.-

Rod Speed

2010-02-26 01:08:17 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,

Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
or similar professional.
An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
be an entirely different thing.
re: Either he's a consumer in which case he gives the job to
someone who can handle it, or he's a fitter in which case he
wouldn't have cut his hand."
What?

In the UK at least a "fitter" is a name given to professional
installers of all sorts of things. Kitchen fitter, motor fitter, electrical
fitter etc etc. Not just simply to someone who "fits" things.
A professional fitter might reasonably be expected to have the
experience to forstall such problems.
The packaging being complained of is intended for opening by
professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs.
"Unskilled" if only in the sense that when they cut their little
"handies" as a result of not using a box-cutter, the correct
tool for the job, they then start to blub like little children.
And start demanding that the "naughty man" should be
made to pay money to Charity "cos they hurted demselves"
Yeah right! Like that's gonna happen !

Post by michael adams
You don't truly believe that a "consumer" can't be a "fitter" do
you? I guess I shouldn't have put in my own windows or doors or
bath fixtures or water heater or stove or deck or any of the
other things I've "fitted" into my house.
After all, I'm just a consumer and "can't handle it".
I'm not defending the OP...I'm not even talking about the OP.I'm
only responding to your claim that a consumer can't also be the fitter.

Plenty of other stuff is tho, most obviously with yorkshire
fittings for copper plumbing etc.

Is that just a casual observation

Nope.

Post by DerbyDad03
or were you trying to make a point?

I succeeded in making a point, even if you are too stupid to have noticed.

Name calling.

Nope, accurate characterisation.

Post by DerbyDad03
That's always a good way to draw a listener in and to
have him think that something intelligent might follow.

There is never anything intelligent in your shit.

Post by Rod Speed
The point is that the packaging with stuff from contractors
supply houses can be very different to the packaging for retail.

No one said that packaging couldn't be different for different items.

You did stupidly claim that the packaging isnt different with
goods from contractors supply houses. That is just plain wrong.

Since the rest of the drivel you've spouted in this response

Corse that wouldnt be you doing any name calling, eh ?

Post by DerbyDad03
isn't even worth addressing,

You never ever could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

Post by DerbyDad03
I'll simply point out the error in the above statement

There is no error in the above statement.

Post by DerbyDad03
since it appears to be the crux of your misunderstanding.

Then you need to get your appears machinery seen to.

Post by DerbyDad03
It's OK that you've dug yourself into a deep hole...

Corse that wouldnt be you doing any name calling, eh ?

Post by DerbyDad03
let me help you get out.

You never can.

Post by DerbyDad03
I specifically pointed out that the packaging for my *windows and doors* was
no different than the packaging for the *windows and doors* at the borgs.

Irrelevant to what was actually being discussed, gas hobs.

Post by DerbyDad03
Feel free to claim that that "is just plain wrong" all you want.

I know its just plain wrong because I physically built my house from scratch myself.

Post by DerbyDad03
It won't change the fact that it is 100% true.

It is in fact a lie.

Post by DerbyDad03
I also specifically pointed out that the packaging for
my *bathroom fixtures* was no different than the
packaging for the same *bathroom fixtures* at the borgs.

Irrelevant to what was actually being discussed, gas hobs.

Post by DerbyDad03
Feel free to claim that that "is just plain wrong" all you want.

I know its just plain wrong because I physically built my house from scratch myself.

Post by DerbyDad03
It won't change the fact that it is 100% true.

It is in fact a lie.

Post by DerbyDad03
I know what I bought and I know how they were packaged at both sources.

Pity you have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.

What you may or may not have bought in spades.

Post by DerbyDad03
I don't recall you being around at the time of the purchases,
so tell me how you know that they weren't packaged the same.

Because I bought all of that stuff myself.

Post by DerbyDad03
Wait...no, don't bother...I don't plan to help you understand the
situation any further once I finish this post, so you'd be wasting
your time by responding - unless it will make you feel better.
If it will, then by all means, call me whatever names you'd
like, insult my family, etc. If it's therapeutic to you, go ahead.
After all, I'm just here to help.
It's been nice chatting with you.

Its been an obscenity reading your desperate attempt to bullshit your way out of your predicament.

Any 2 year old could leave it for dead.

Please show me where I ever said you did.

And you fucked that up completely too with door and windows.

Post by DerbyDad03
Chucking out a random thoughts

Everyone can see for themselves that they werent anything like random, fool.

Post by DerbyDad03
on other items is not relevant to the discussion at hand.

Everyone can see for themselves that that is a lie.

I'm not a plumber, but I bought my fixtures at a plumbing
supply house. They weren't packaged any differently than
the fixtures at the big box stores, where "consumer's" shop.

Bet the yorkshire fittings were. Mine are loose in bins etc.
Same with taps etc too.

Again...Your point?

See above.

re: "The packaging being complained of is intended for
opening by professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs."
Again, I beg to differ. Packaging isn't "intended" to be opened by
people of a certain occupation. It's intended to protect an item
during shipping/storage.
If the item in question should never have been (to use your
word) "handled" by the consumer, then it should have been a
"controlled
substance" and he shouldn't have been able to buy it without a
license or proof of training.

Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.

The word "too" implies that what I said earlier was wrong. It wasn't.

It was.

Now *that's* a substantial response.

It was elaborated elsewhere, you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.

Post by DerbyDad03
The products I mentioned earlier were not packed any differently
at the contractor/plumbing supply houses than at the borgs.

Pity about other stuff that is.

Again, why is the "other stuff" relevant to the discussion as to whether
certain packaging is intended to be opened by professionals only?

Because it blows your stupid claims completely out of the water, fool.

Its a clear example of where there is no packaging
whatever with stuff intended for professional fitting, fool.

Post by Rod Speed
They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.

I do believe the word I (and Toom) used was "handled".

Irrelevant to your stupid claim about packaging.

Are you sure you understand what my claim was?

Yep.

Post by DerbyDad03
It appears not.

Its obvious you never can bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

Post by DerbyDad03
Is there a legal restriction against "handling" the products in question?

Irrelevant to whether its legal for the consumer to use.

But relevant to the discussion of whether packaging is intended for
"professional opening only"

Plenty of it is.

Post by DerbyDad03
which is the *only* claim I was responding to.

By making a complete fool of yourself, as always.

Post by Rod Speed
Same with GPOs etc too, they arent legally usable by the
consumer either.

*handled* my friend, *handled*.

Use, no friend of mine, use.

Oh, be nice.

Corse you always do that yourself, eh ?

Absent those restrictions, anyone, consumer or
professional, is allowed to "handle" the product and it's their
responsibility to take the proper precautions when doing so.-

Toom Tabard

2010-02-24 11:18:12 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,

Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
or similar professional.
An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
be an entirely different thing.

Nope. It would not be unusual for a consumer to unpack a gas hob,
install it and connect it if it is to a simple user connect point.
Only needs a fitter if gas fittings themselves need installed and
consumer doesn't have the necessary competence.

Toom

michael adams

2010-02-24 14:58:42 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,

Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
or similar professional.
An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
be an entirely different thing.

By definition the OP didn't have the necessary competence in this situation
otherwise he wouldn't have cut his hand. Having the necessary competence
must embrace an element of knowing what to expect.

Nearly every stainless steel sink I've ever seen has had steel locating
tabs at right angles around the underside of the sink complete with screw
holes. The edges of these tabs are always sharp - they're straight out of
a press and could easily cut the hand of anyone foolish enough to reach
their hand inside the carton to lift out the sink by that means. But nobody
is ever reported as having done so because people familiar with sinks will
know what to expect.

As it happens IIRR the OP didn't mention whether there was a manual that
came with his hob. Had there been such a manual, quite possibly it would
have advised not only the wearing of gloves, but also goggles and a safety
helmet. And in a room with adequate ventilation just so as to cover all
the bases.

michael adams

...

Toom Tabard

2010-02-21 17:10:00 UTC

Post by john hamilton
Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from a
well known national department store.
After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted out.
There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I did not
want to pull it out using these.
So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep cuts
along the back of three fingers.
Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is if
its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a file.
This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
everybody else would try to lift it out.
How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this happening
again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a U.K. store.
My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity, since
having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and then
carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly happening.
Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
contribution.

The supplier (UK national store) is responsible. Suggest you take item
and packaging to your local trading standards and demonstrate the
issue to them. Consumer goods should not have hidden hazards in supply
and packaging. £100 to charity seems rather modest. You are fortunate
it was back of fingers - with front of fingers, nerves, veins and
arteries could have been damaged - it seems like an issue that
warrants immediate attention to ensure no-one sustains such injuries.
If the 'national department store' has a local branch, demonstrating
it to them would be useful, but you should also immediately write to
their supply address pointing out the danger; mentioning their
subsequent possible liability from criminal negligence after the issue
has been brought to their attention is sometimes a wake-up call

Toom

Doug Miller

2010-02-21 17:26:46 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
The supplier (UK national store) is responsible.

Horseshit. The OP is solely responsible. It's not exactly an arcane secret
that objects made of sheet metal sometimes have sharp edges. Only a fool would
uncrate something by wrapping his fingers around an edge that he couldn't see,
and several others have already described how he *should* have uncrated it.

Toom Tabard

2010-02-21 17:33:27 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
The supplier (UK national store) is responsible.

Total nonsesnse in terms of the law of negligence and legal liability.
There would have to be clear warning of the hazard of unpacking.

Toom

Harry K

2010-02-23 14:40:27 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
The supplier (UK national store) is responsible.

Total nonsesnse in terms of the law of negligence and legal liability.
There would have to be clear warning of the hazard of unpacking.
Toom

Yes, one can always find a sleaze ball lawyer to sue over something
that is the complainers fault.

Harry K

johannes

2010-02-21 19:36:08 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
The supplier (UK national store) is responsible.

I don't agree with you. Sheet metal edges should at least have been smoothed
out. OP could not have known that the unpacking needed to be done in a
particular sequence. OP obviously didn't cut his fingers voluntarily.
This is a serious issue IMO.

krw

2010-02-22 17:11:46 UTC

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:36:08 +0000, johannes

Post by johannes

Post by Toom Tabard
The supplier (UK national store) is responsible.

Agree 100%. Any idiot who sues over their stupidity should lose, and
pay the defendants lawyer, *big* time. It's time for Darwin to go to
work.

Post by johannes
I don't agree with you. Sheet metal edges should at least have been smoothed
out. OP could not have known that the unpacking needed to be done in a
particular sequence. OP obviously didn't cut his fingers voluntarily.

Perhaps not voluntarily, but being stupid was enough.

Post by johannes
This is a serious issue IMO.

Hogwash. The idiot cut his precious little finners. Too bad.

Rod Speed

2010-02-21 17:14:37 UTC

You cant. Even buying only the most expensive products wont ensure that.

The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a U.K. store.

And it was made in china.

My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity,

And they will file the request in the round filing cabinet under their desk.

since having to pay money

You cant make them do that.

might make them actually make them take notice and then carry out the extra work on these units to stop this
repeatedly happening.

Unlikely. Even if you can force them to pay that money, and you cant, its unlikey
that enough would do that to make it worth their while to fix the problem.

Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable contribution.

You could try setting fire to yourself outside the Italian HQ.

Your only real option is to wear gloves when getting it
out of the box in that situation and file the edges yourself.

Toom Tabard

2010-02-21 17:22:28 UTC

You cant. Even buying only the most expensive products wont ensure that.

The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a U.K. store.

And it was made in china.

My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity,

And they will file the request in the round filing cabinet under their desk.

since having to pay money

You cant make them do that.

might make them actually make them take notice and then carry out the extra work on these units to stop this
repeatedly happening.

Unlikely. Even if you can force them to pay that money, and you cant, its unlikey
that enough would do that to make it worth their while to fix the problem.

Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable contribution.

You could try setting fire to yourself outside the Italian HQ.
Your only real option is to wear gloves when getting it
out of the box in that situation and file the edges yourself.

Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer, there should be no
hidden hazard in any reasonable action to remove it from the
packaging

Toom

Rod Speed

2010-02-21 17:50:40 UTC

You cant. Even buying only the most expensive products wont ensure that.

Post by john hamilton
The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a U.K. store.

And it was made in china.

Post by john hamilton
My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity,

And they will file the request in the round filing cabinet under their desk.

Post by john hamilton
since having to pay money

You cant make them do that.

Post by john hamilton
might make them actually make them take notice and then carry out
the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly happening.

Unlikely. Even if you can force them to pay that money, and you
cant, its unlikey that enough would do that to make it worth their
while to fix the problem.

Post by john hamilton
Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable contribution.

You could try setting fire to yourself outside the Italian HQ.
Your only real option is to wear gloves when getting it
out of the box in that situation and file the edges yourself.

Total nonsense

Your sig is sposed to be last, with a line with just -- on it in front of it.

Post by Toom Tabard
- in an item supplied to a consumer, there should be no hidden
hazard in any reasonable action to remove it from the packaging

Then theres the real world...

Toom Tabard

2010-02-21 18:01:35 UTC

You cant. Even buying only the most expensive products wont ensure that.

Post by john hamilton
The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a U.K. store.

And it was made in china.

Post by john hamilton
My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity,

And they will file the request in the round filing cabinet under their desk.

Post by john hamilton
since having to pay money

You cant make them do that.

Post by john hamilton
might make them actually make them take notice and then carry out
the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly happening.

Unlikely. Even if you can force them to pay that money, and you
cant, its unlikey that enough would do that to make it worth their
while to fix the problem.

Post by john hamilton
Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable contribution.

You could try setting fire to yourself outside the Italian HQ.
Your only real option is to wear gloves when getting it
out of the box in that situation and file the edges yourself.

Total nonsense

Your sig is sposed to be last, with a line with just -- on it in front of it.

Post by Toom Tabard
- in an item supplied to a consumer, there should be no hidden
hazard in any reasonable action to remove it from the packaging

Then theres the real world...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

And the law in the real world supports what I said. If you dispatch
something with hidden and unexpected hazards which injure someone
taking reasonable action as a consumer, then you are legally liable
for the injuries.

Toom

Rod Speed

2010-02-21 18:43:39 UTC

You cant. Even buying only the most expensive products wont ensure that.

Post by john hamilton
The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a U.K. store.

And it was made in china.

Post by john hamilton
My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity,

And they will file the request in the round filing cabinet under their desk.

Post by john hamilton
since having to pay money

You cant make them do that.

Post by john hamilton
might make them actually make them take notice and then carry out
the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly happening.

Unlikely. Even if you can force them to pay that money,
and you cant, its unlikey that enough would do that to
make it worth their while to fix the problem.

Post by john hamilton
Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable contribution.

You could try setting fire to yourself outside the Italian HQ.
Your only real option is to wear gloves when getting it
out of the box in that situation and file the edges yourself.

Total nonsense

Your sig is sposed to be last, with a line with just -- on it in front of it.

Post by Toom Tabard
- in an item supplied to a consumer, there should be no hidden
hazard in any reasonable action to remove it from the packaging

Then theres the real world...

And the law in the real world supports what I said.

Have fun getting damages in other than the stupid US legal system.

Its been completely off the rails for centurys now.

Post by Toom Tabard
If you dispatch something with hidden and unexpected hazards which injure someone
taking reasonable action as a consumer, then you are legally liable for the injuries.

Have fun getting damages in other than the stupid US legal system.

Its been completely off the rails for centurys now.

It makes a hell of a lot more sense to use gloves or open the box like a flower or just
let the entire contents and its packaging slide out of the box onto the floor gently etc.

Toom Tabard

2010-02-21 20:17:12 UTC

Post by Toom Tabard
If you dispatch something with hidden and unexpected hazards which injure someone
taking reasonable action as a consumer, then you are legally liable for the injuries.

Have fun getting damages in other than the stupid US legal system.
Its been completely off the rails for centurys now.
It makes a hell of a lot more sense to use gloves or open the box like a flower or just
let the entire contents and its packaging slide out of the box onto the floor gently etc.- Hide quoted text -

But a customer can reasonably expect to open a box and remove an item
in any way that seems reasonable without being exposed to injury from
exposed but not obvious 'razor sharp' edges.

My remarks regarding the suppliers liability for injuries are in
response to the claim by others that the OP is the author of his own
misfortune.

The OP seems to have acted as reasonable person would in unpacking an
item and trying not to damage it. His main concern is that similar
injuries will happen to others. That's why I've advised him to report
it to Trading Standards and to the suppliers. Trading Standards have a
responsibility if an item is faulty or dangerous. In this case, there
is no suggestion that the hob is faulty or dangerous in operation, but
it might be hoped they'd also take action where the supply and
handling of the item presents a clear and present danger (or refer the
OP to whoever has any responsibility). Similarly, it is important the
OP report the problem to the supplier. There is some evidence of
negligence (his actual injuries) in the supply of the goods. It
becomes a much clearer issue of negligence and liability if, after
having drawn the issue to their attention, they fail to take
reasonable and immediate action to prevent injury to others.

Toom

Rod Speed

2010-02-21 21:15:33 UTC